The war in the Gaza Strip is continuing for its third month and Israeli military casualties are mounting. In an interview with The Media Line’s Felice Friedson, the Israel Defense Forces international spokesman, Lt.-Col. Jonathan Conricus, discusses the short- and long-term goals of the war and says Israel is paying a heavy price, but its goals remain unshaken: Hamas must be toppled, he says, and the hostages being held in Gaza, who still include 17 women and children, must be returned. Israel has no other choice.
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Conricus says the Israeli army has exposed hundreds of meters of tunnels, some of which are very sophisticated. Many of the tunnels lead to homes, and house after house is filled with weapons, explosives, and rocket launchers. One possible scenario for destroying the massive underground city is flooding it with seawater, an option Conricus didn’t dismiss. “At the end of the day,” he tells The Media Line, “these tunnels will hopefully be the undoing of Hamas.”
The Media Line: Lt.-Col. Jonathan Conricus is the international spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with me here at The Media Line.
Lt.-Col. Conricus: Thank you for having me, Felice.
TML: On the day that Israel declared war on Hamas, those speaking on her behalf stressed that the path to victory would be a slow one, deliberate and costly. Now, some 68 days into the conflict, observers are amazed that rockets continue to fly into Israel, and that the Hamas fighting remains pretty lethal. What “unexpecteds” have you encountered in the last two months?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: So, we’ve been fighting for 68 days, since the 7th of October, and as we said from the beginning, even before we started ground operations in Gaza in order to dismantle Hamas, we said that we understand and know that it is going to be a long and difficult fight, that unfortunately we are going to have to pay a price in blood in order to achieve our goals, and that it will not be easy, but that our resolve is very clear.
And all of us, soldiers in the IDF, and officers, commanders, the High Command, all understand that we have to dismantle Hamas in order for Israeli civilians to be able to go home.
Now, we have seen Hamas continue to operate throughout the war, and we see that they still retain certain rocket firing and combat capabilities. Unfortunately, yesterday we had a mass casualty event in Shejaiya [in the northern Gaza Strip] where 10 Israeli soldiers were killed from the Golani Brigade and our elite aerial rescue unit, our tactical Air Force unit [669].
So there are still pockets of resistance in northern Gaza, and the fight isn’t over there. There are still rocket launches and there are still tunnels, and there are still terrorists there. Of course, greatly degraded, but still there. And in southern Gaza, specifically in Khan Yunis, the fighting is ongoing and it will take a lot of time and a lot of effort in order to dismantle Hamas, but we shouldn’t confuse time and patience with a lack of resolve.
The resolve is very clear, and we are going to defeat Hamas. There is no other option.
TML: Lt.-Col. Conricus, looking at the bloodshed, the loss of lives of your soldiers, did you underestimate, did the IDF underestimate, the power of Hamas?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: I think what we can say safely is that Hamas has prioritized their military capabilities over everything else, and we can see as our forces advance and as we clear areas, houses, neighborhoods, and parts of cities from Hamas terrorists after we defeat them and dismantle the enemy activity there, what we expose is hundreds of miles of tunnels, hundreds, almost a thousand, tunnel shafts. Some of them are very high-tech and high-level and a high finish of infrastructure. And we find house after house full of weapons, IEDs, explosives, rocket launchers, and anything that Hamas could get their hands on.
So what I think I can see is that I think it’s clear where Hamas priorities have been. They definitely have not been developing Gaza, caring for civilians, building civilian infrastructure, schools and hospitals and mosques and roads and clinics. No. It has been in furnishing themselves with tunnels and buying and smuggling weapons so that they can go on their continued jihad against Israel. That will now be brought to an end.
Hamas will be dismantled, and as our forces on the ground advance, we uncover what Hamas is leaving behind. We’re documenting everything, and we’re also sharing it with the world so that everyone can see where international aid has gone, where it was supposed to have gone above ground, and where it evidently ended up underground in the hands of Hamas.
TML: This has been going on for years, the smuggling of weapons, but do you believe the international community actually believes that today? You might be saying that here, and on many other international programs, yet public opinion doesn’t necessarily say that they agree with the reality on the ground.
Lt.-Col. Conricus: I think that the polling indicates not quite what you say because I see very solid support among [the] US population, lots of sympathy towards Israel, the Israeli government even, and definitely Israelis. And there’s a distinction between those three.
And I think, according to the polls that I’ve seen, an overwhelming US majority, and I’ve seen polls of Western countries as well, an overwhelming US majority supports Israel’s quest to dismantle Hamas based on what they’ve seen, what Hamas did on October 7th. The atrocities, the murder, rape, the brutal executions, and the burning of corpses and all of those atrocities Hamas did that seem distant now.
It’s been more than two months, but it’s still very fresh in Israeli collective memory. People saw that, and people understand what monsters Israel is dealing with, and therefore people all around the world support Israel in our quest to defend ourselves. And I understand that there are certain elites, and there are editors and there are politicians and people for whom it doesn’t fit with their worldview and agenda that Israel should be allowed to defend itself and to care for itself and for Israelis to live safely within their internationally recognized border without fear of being under persecution, rape and murder.
But that’s fine. They’ll continue to harbor their negative views, and we’ll continue to build our country, defend ourselves, and defeat our enemies as we have been doing since 1948.
TML: The United States was very strong in supporting the Israel Defense Forces’ actions in Gaza. There is a bit of a shift. You see President Biden putting on some very strong pushback at this point and he’s saying that [Israel] has to pull back. He’s telling everyone [to] wrap it up in some form. How is this going to impact what the IDF is going to do in the coming weeks? What’s the pressure point here?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: I don’t see one, and on the ground in the IDF that is not the perception that we have. What I see in news events and what I see the president saying is, I stand with Israel, and I support Israel, and Israel needs to get rid of Hamas. Those are clear words that I understand.
I see a lot of journalists trying to corner the president and get other statements out of him, but I see a president steadfast in his support for Israel, unflinching and unmoving, and I think that is tremendous. That is the leadership that is so extremely important in times of war. And I see various other important American officials, including senior spokespeople like [John] Kirby taking a very clear moral position on what needs to be done, defeat Hamas, bring the hostages home, and do it in such a way that it minimizes collateral damage and damage to civilians, which is what we are doing.
We do listen to what our allies and friends around the world are saying. We do take into account the criticism that is voiced, and we do try to adapt, where applicable, our tactics on the ground in order to accommodate that, and of course, we communicate what we are doing on the battlefield to the world, so that the world can see how we are fighting, and also, very importantly, what type of enemy we are fighting. How the enemy uses cynically the civilians at their so-to-say disposal that they have in Gaza because it’s really how Hamas looks at civilian Palestinians.
They think of them as something disposable that they can use, in order to get public opinion swayed against Israel and for Hamas, and in some cases, it works and some people are calling for cease-fire, and some people are adopting Hamas’ talking points. I think that’s very unfortunate, but at the end of the day, our resolve is very clear.
We understand what needs to be done, and we also understand that really, frankly, we don’t have a choice. If we do not defeat Hamas, our people, Israelis, cannot go back to live safely in their homes, and that is a result that is unacceptable. And therefore we will continue to fight until Hamas is defeated and our hostages returned.
TML: There are still a lot of hostages left in Gaza. Are you closer to getting any of them out? There were those in the IDF that attempted to bring two back; they brought two hostage bodies back, and unfortunately others were killed. [Former Chief of General Staff] Gadi Eisenkot, his son was killed in that action. So what is it going to take? Is it going to be a constant race to see how you are going to get the hostages out, and yet you might lose more men in doing so?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: It is a tremendous challenge. A tactical challenge. It’s a very difficult mission to deal with, because of how cynically Hamas is using the hostages as bargaining chips and as human shields. We have said very clearly from the beginning and continuously that we are going to spare no efforts in getting our hostages back, even if it means to conduct tactical operations which will put soldiers at risk. It is our commitment and our duty to bring our hostages back.
If it can be done through diplomatic means, great. If it cannot be done through diplomatic means, then we will do it in any other way that is possible. At the end of the day, our moral and professional obligation is to bring our people back.
TML: What are the numbers currently? How many women are being held today in Gaza?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: As far as I know, there are 135 Israelis still held in Gaza, out of which 17 are women and children.
TML: Does that include the hostage body that just came back? Is it down to 134?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: I know 135. That is the latest number I have based on the latest information.
TML: Was it 16 in terms of women at this moment?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: As far as I know, we are talking about 17 women and children. I could be mistaken by one. These are moving figures after all, but in any case, the very important thing is that Hamas, they themselves violated the agreement that they pushed so hard in order to achieve in return for a temporary cease-fire or a pause in operations.
They were supposed to return 10 live Israeli civilians, women or children, every day. They failed to do so. They violated the terms of the agreement, and then they also started firing. And there is a lot of speculation as to why they did that. I’m not going to speculate about it, but a lot has been said about it.
But at the end of the day, contrary to Hamas claims, there are at least 17 women and children still held in Hamas captivity, 68 days after the war started.
TML: The Wall Street Journal just came out with a story that you are flooding the tunnels. It’s definitely something that has been discussed. Is there anything that you can share about this with the concerns that it can hurt the fresh water that the Gazans will need?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: Yeah, you know Hamas has been digging tunnels for many years, and we have been developing different countermeasures and techniques in order to deal with tunnels, both those tunnels that were dug into Israel what we call terror tunnels in order to infiltrate into Israel, and also underground infrastructure that they have inside Gaza which is really the backbone of their combat network.
I can’t go into details. I can say that we are looking at different capabilities and different components. We want to turn the tunnels from an asset that Hamas has really to a liability and eventually to their graves, and that is our intention.
We are taking everything into consideration. The location of Israelis who may be held captive in certain areas, and other considerations; one of them you mentioned. But at the end of the day, these tunnels will hopefully be the undoing of Hamas.
TML: Looking ahead, is it too early to look ahead for an end game? Where will the Palestinian people be left? How will the Israeli borders be secure? There has to be a strategy that is being discussed at the moment.
Lt.-Col. Conricus: I’m sure there is. Yes, and it’s an important part. The IDF is part of the discussions at the cabinet and government level. We voiced our input when asked, when solicited. And at the end of the day, the IDF will implement the directives given by the government.
I hope, as an Israeli, that a good and long-term solution can be found, one that first and foremost ensures the security and the sense of security for Israeli civilians that hopefully soon will be able to go back to their homes, rebuild their communities. Despite the heavy losses that they’ve sustained, despite the damage to their beautiful communities, they’ll have the power, they’ll find the power.
And with the help of the state and other people who will be helping, also the resources in order to rebuild those communities, and hopefully make them grow beyond what they were before. That is really reliant first and foremost on security being available and stable for those civilians to feel safe in order to return there.
And then I hope that the international community will see it fit to join in and help, for once fundamentally change the situation in Gaza. We will free Gaza of the terrorist organization that ruled with an iron fist, a heavy hand, over Gaza for the last 17 years, and that will be an opportunity for positive, more advanced forces in the region, for nations in the region to invest in what’s happening and hopefully bring about a positive and sustainable future for Gaza.
I care mostly about Israeli civilians and our security, but I also understand that if there’s prosperity and stability and education for human values and perhaps even democracy on the other side of the border, that’s probably a good thing for us as well. So I am hopeful that that will happen, and I’m hopeful that there will be international partners who will see it fit to rise to the challenge and do something good for a change when it comes to Gaza.
TML: What are the biggest obstacles that the IDF is facing now as they’re trying to wrap up this war, particularly in the north?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: Yeah, I don’t think we’re quite there yet. Mentally, we are definitely not thinking about wrapping up. We are knee-deep in fighting, and there still is a lot of heavy lifting to be done. Hamas still has combat capabilities in southern Gaza and still needs to be eliminated.
We still need to take out the leadership, their command and control, and to dismantle and take away their military and administrative and financial capabilities. So that’s still ahead of us.
In the north, if you’re referring to Hizbullah, then there is also a very significant challenge. As I said before regarding Gaza, I think it’s very clear that we cannot ask our civilians to return to their homes and to be at risk of reliving the atrocities of October the 7th that happened along the Gaza border. And that the security situation needs to change.
The Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi said so very clearly when he spoke with local leaders. Before we ask you to go back, before we tell you that it’s safe to go back, we will make sure that it’s safe and that the situation on the ground will not go back to what it was on October the 7th.
Obviously, the first choice that Israel [can take], or the first option that we will entertain, is not the kinetic military violence one. But if we are left with no other choices, if diplomacy fails, and other options will fail, then of course Israel will have to deal with the situation and will have to deal with the presence of this Iranian proxy at our doorsteps hundreds of yards away from Israeli communities. That is unacceptable, and it will not be the reality after the war.
Let’s hope that people, nations, and institutions that have an interest in the safety of Israelis and the integrity of the state of Lebanon will intervene soon enough, so as to avoid unnecessary bloodshed and destruction and the horrors that a war between Israel and Hizbullah may entail.
TML: Videos are circulating showing Hamas taking over humanitarian aid that’s designated for their own people. What can you add to that in terms of what you’re going through in trying to get people to the right places, suggesting where it might be a safe zone, and also the obstacles there in terms of getting humanitarian aid to the population?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: Hamas colors are shining through, and it’s another example of how they have absolutely no regard for Palestinian civilians. They are just using them as cannon fodder, as human shields, and as pawns in their political efforts against Israel. That’s very cynical, but it’s very obvious for anybody who is honest enough and can see.
Yeah, so the true colors of Hamas are showing. It’s evident that they absolutely have no regard for civilians, or Palestinian civilians. They continue to use them as their human shields and as expendable assets in their political game against Israel.
We see them looting UNRWA warehouses. We see them taking over humanitarian trucks and convoys. We see them stealing fuel. We see them stealing food and medicine that is intended through the generous aid of the US and the help of Egypt and many other parts of the international community they are intended for good humanitarian purposes. And many around the world hope that it will get to their civilian addresses.
But at the end of the day, Hamas has one goal. Their goal is jihad, holy war against Israel. They want to annihilate Israel. They want to do the October 7th massacre again and again and again, and for that aim they have no problem taking humanitarian aid, with stealing fuel, or with taking food that is intended for Palestinian children in hospitals in Gaza and bringing underground into their tunnels for their fighters to have instead of civilians. So it’s abundantly clear.
We’ve been saying all along that Hamas abuses the civilian population. Our hope is that more and more people around the world will see reality and acknowledge the fact that Hamas is violating everything that is supposed to be holy, and any of the basic tenets of humanity. They are committing crimes against humanity on a daily basis.
And I hope, really hope, that [the] UN and other humanitarian organizations will finally come around and speak the truth about what’s happening in Gaza and call Hamas out for what it is: a terrorist organization that brutally abuses the civilian population. And it is about high time that UNRWA and other organizations call [out] Hamas for what it is and start helping us save Palestinians from the horrors of warfare and get them out of the battle zone, provide them with international humanitarian aid, and make sure that it doesn’t go into the wrong hands of Hamas.
TML: The clock is ticking, and the families of the hostages are deeply concerned that they may not see their loved ones. It’s a big difficulty for the Israel Defense Forces, especially now when you are pushing forward with possibly flooding tunnels. What do you do? How do you secure those hostages at this moment?
Lt.-Col. Conricus: As I said, it’s a very very sensitive topic, and an extremely complex and very challenging mission. Because of the sensitivity, I can’t go into the exact details of the tactics of it. What I can say is that it is a top priority of the IDF to get all of the hostages back. We spare no efforts [in] intelligence, manpower, [and] resources in locating the hostages and trying to bring them home.
Unfortunately, one effort that we conducted a few days ago ended with us only being able to return the bodies of hostages, but we will continue to collect intelligence, devise plans, and where feasible, execute plans in order to get the people back.
We are aware of the situation, and I think that one thing that should be said is that for 68 days these Israelis have been held in inhumane conditions and the Red Cross has not yet found the ability or the political will to actually go implement their mandate and visit these hostages. Many of them [are] women, children and civilians, but soldiers have rights as well under the Geneva Conventions. All of them are entitled to a visit by the Red Cross to make sure that they are receiving medical help, that they are safe, and that their basic needs are taken care of.
That is what’s supposed to happen. Sadly, it has not yet happened, and it wouldn’t be a minute too soon once the Red Cross actually gets access and implements its mandate.
TML: Lt.-Col. Jonathan Conricus, international spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces, thank you for your time. And I wish you strength.
Lt.-Col. Conricus: Thank you. Thank you, Felice.
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